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What the readers have written / ce que les lecteurs ont écrit126. Date:
2011-08-25, From:
Je pourrais écrire en Anglais mais puisque tu te permet de parler de la langue française comme de ta s ur je pense que tu n'aura aucun mal à comprendre ce message :) (Sinon utilise google traduction) Pour tout ce qui est de la politique je suis à peu prés d'accords, les dirigeant français se prennent pour les boss. Cependant je tiens à préciser que ce n'est pas chez nous qu'il y a des émeutes mais bien en Angleterre ! Peut-être me dira tu "le peuple se révolte il ne se laisse pas faire", effectivement c'est bien de se révolter en pillant les magasins et en cassant tout, vive l Angleterre ! Deuxièmement tu n'as aucune argumentation, tout ce que tu fais au long de ton discours c'est cracher, cracher et encore cacher. C'est bien dommage que tu n'argumente pas (ou peut-être n'as tu pas d'arguments ?). Pour finir (car je n'ai pas eu la patience de tout lire du fait de la relativité flagrante qui fonde ton discours), tu met la langue anglaise au centre de tout en disant que c'est la langue française qui se veut mal faite. Je te signal au passage que le français est une langue latine et que chacun de ses mots est basés sur le latin, langue des grands hommes d'autre fois. D'ailleurs le français est beaucoup plus dur à assimiler que l'anglais, ne dit-on pas que c'est la langue des poètes ? Voila, je tiens à rajouter que je ne suis clairement pas fier d'être français, d'ailleurs ce n'est que ma première année en france. Les gens sont hautain, distant et se croient le centre du monde. C'est bien dommage d'ailleurs car la france possède une culture très riche et une langue magnifique. Les jeunes d'aujourd'hui pourrissent tout ! (et je n aie que 18 ans) Je serais heureux que tu me répondes. Author's comment: The advantage of writing in English would have been that more readers of this site would have understood it, but that is your own choice. The riots in England are very recent, but that doesn't mean that the riots having taken place in France suddenly didn't take place. There is no justification for rioting, but there is a cause that governments in both countries need to take seriously. It is common for the UK and France that politicians listen less and less to electors' concerns. If they had been closer to reality, a lot could have been done to try to prevent rioting instead of just trying to stop it when it happens. Some of the sections of this site are up to ten years old, and many parts would have been written differently if written today. Attentive readers will notice variations of style depending on when each section was written. There is great fiction and poetry in French as well as English. While French is based on Latin, and while the country and language are connected to a lot of culture, it doesn't mean that the language should never evolve or that only French culture matters. It is possible to appreciate culture from the past without living in a museum. In that case, why not just stay with Latin? French was considered vulgar Latin by educated people in the Middle Ages, and some of these educated people considered it below their dignity to concern themselves with such a vulgar language spoken by common, uneducated people. Just to illustrate that French is not a language set in stone since the beginning of history. It is a quite modern notion that everything has to be fossilised out of some irrational fear of the future and other cultures and languages, and it is something that is quite particular for France. It is also particular for France that the French are so navel-gazing when it comes to culture and languages, placing so much focus on their own culture and language and showing so little relative interest in culture and languages from other parts of the planet. 125. Date:
2011-05-17, From:
obi one 124. Date:
2011-03-29, From:
Nicolas Author's comment: I'll simply re-quote what appears at the beginning of the
page: 123. Date:
2011-03-11, From:
Yuriy Author's comments: I don't hide that the page is subjective, but that the stories about people are real. I personally know the person who was locked up in the psychiatric ward, and I have read the court decisions. I know the person who was persecuted by the tax authorities. I have twice been subject to Danish tax authorities violating tax law. I know the person whose bicycle was run over and who was then prosecuted, a French film producer. It is quite possible that some facts change over time, such as for example smoking habits, and that there is a time lag before the page is updated to match it. I admit it can be difficult to understand that a country like Denmark can present such horror stories, but if you take care to examine cases where Denmark has been condemned for human rights violations at the European Court of Human Rights, or if you read Amnesty International's summaries about Denmark, you will see that the country is not so white as it pretends to be. That is what this page is intended to show, as a counterbalance to all the one-sided information found elsewhere. As for the Andersen fairy tales, there are sites enough already. 122. Date:
2011-02-24, From:
(anonymous) 121. Date:
2010-10-05, From:
Raph33inUK It is true that being different or original, is not really praised and encouraged in France, whether being in the workplace, at school, or in life in general, particularly by the middle-class bourgeoisie, sometimes full of themselves and convinced of their being in the right "box", as opposed to all the others who aren't. I can't deny that in France, being self-employed could be tricky, or that promotion of creativity and autonomy among staff is not quite on the agenda of many managers. New regulations bringing very simplified administrative process have considerably changed things though, and there are now hundreds of thousands of self employed people in France. Don't forget that modern work ethics in France were built on the opposition between Marxist ideas of the working class on the one hand, and old fashioned managing methods coming from the bourgeoisie of the XIX century on the other hand. They never came to terms in more than 100 years, and many unions and workers consider company managers as an enemy because they are an embodiment of "evil" capitalism, which is partly true, while on the other side this ideology feeds the almost natural distrust of the working class by managers, because the working class has for so long been influenced by communism. Managers expect workers to be a problem because the unions are communist orientated and workers expect managers to behave like nasty liberal capitalists. The circle feeds itself from both ends. None of them have understood that working together rather than against each other was more productive than ideological postures leading to systematic confrontation, very often only because the "other" is on the other side and thus "wrong". I think France has never really "digested" this passeist [sic] way of dealing with work ethics. We desperately need the creation of a non-politicised union that would be able to represent the silent majority of workers, with a constructive and intelligent approach to problems, and to counterbalance the current ideologically biased unions that only represent their own petty and selfish interests. Most French people are actually aware of that, but for some reason, nothing happens. This had led to an overwhelming conservatism, which starts right from school, where from the age of 7 or 8, you have to fit in a pre-determined box. If you fit the box, you are fine, but if you don't and your parents don't do their "job" to counterbalance this, then you're in big trouble. Again, everything is based on ideology. A few "thinkers" decide what has to be done in terms of pedagogy and how it has to be done, regardless of reality. In a few words, for the French pédagogues who decide what is right or wrong, reality has to adapt to their ideology and not the other way round. If it doesn't work, it's because teachers do not implement the recommendations properly and not because the ideology is wrong in the first place. That's why teachers' inspections are mainly based on checking that everything is taught the way it should be according to recommendation, and not about result regardless of the method used. That's also why many teachers go "freestyle" most of the time and the day of the inspection try to give the perfect illusion that what's happening in their classroom is exactly as it should be so that the "little soldiers" inspectors representing the system leave happy and write a good report. Everybody knows it, but everybody officially pretends they don't, because they know the system will never change and will protect itself against any in depth reforms. Again, the only people systematically against change are the unions, not the entire staff of administrations. Many people actually working in French administrations complain and hope for change, but because they are not part of a union, their voice is not heard. And the unions usually see to it, as, if you are not with them, it means you are against them, or if what you have to say does not suit their plans, they will find a way to make you shut up. Good old Soviet methods. About the Britons willing to move to France, and there are MANY of them in my region, I can assure you that they do it because they genuinely love the country, life-style, the quality of life, of food, of wine etc and not because they might have been lured to think so by tourist-like arguments. I may sound chauvinistic to you, but quality of life does exist in France, especially in my region, and if so many foreigners choose Aquitaine or Brittany or Normandy for their retirement years, it is no accident. I forgot to say something about the "French cultural exception". Adding to what I said previously, I want to say that there is in Britain a "British cultural exception" that doesn't want to say its name, and which is far more aggressive and self-centred than the French one. In the end, everybody complains and gets annoyed about "l'exception Française", but when you look closely enough, "l'exception Anglaise" is much more annoying. The French are proud of themselves, but they can recognise and enjoy ideas and works from all around the world, whereas the British are proud of themselves and don't really care about anything else, when they don't reject everything else! I also forgot to say that I couldn't agree more with you on the French police! The French police became "Police Nationale" under the Vichy government, as was introduced the ID card, in the aim of watching and controlling the population. The methods were based on suspicion of everyone, and every citizen was considered a potential "terrorist" or "anti-national" element. And I am afraid that this "philosophical" base has not changed much in 70 years. One detail though: there is big distinction between Police Nationale and Gendarmerie. The Gendarmerie being composed of military people, they usually have more respect for people and much better behaviour. They are generally polite, curteous [sic] and don't behave like cowboys who think they have all rights on you and can do whatever they want to you because they're wearing a uniform. If you ask French people, I'm pretty sure they will all give the same answer. Things got worse when Sarkozy came to the Home Office and then became President, as he replaced all "police de proximité" by brutal cowboys for the purposes of his policy based on fear of insecurity amongst the population. This has widened the divide between the French people and their police, and everyone knows that, whatever happens, "On ne peut pas parler avec les flics"! I remember what Sarkozy did a few years ago in Toulouse. The gendarmerie there was commanded by a young officer who had launched local initiatives to help solve crime and violence problems in some "banlieues" [suburbs]. He had organised "non-cowboy" patrols to renew contact with the population and even trigger a dialog with the youths of these banlieue. His ideas were based on mutual respect, talking to each other etc so that the youths would not hate the cops as much as they usually do. He even organised football matches between his men and the youths. Crime rate collapsed in a few months and people started to have a "normal" life again. Sarkozy heard about it, flew to Toulouse, gave the officer a rollicking and sent him somewhere else as a punishment, after telling him that he wasn't there to be nice and play football but reach good arrest figures. This gives an idea of how thinks the new French right wing led by this man. Author's comment: The new auto-entrepreneur scheme for self-employed may be simple, but because expenses are not deductible, it is unusable for certain businesses with high expenses and for businesses subcontracting, and it has other limitations. It is a sort of 'playground' business scheme. Standard business schemes for self-employed remain unreformed, imposing minimum social charges of more than 1000 euros per year on low incomes and deficits, and pestering the self-employed with 10 different social charges. Mandatory pension contributions can in certain cases exceed profits. PS: 2010-10-13: the tenth Chilean miner has been rescued at the time of writing. It has been interesting to note that only the English-language TV channels, the British BBC and Sky and the American CNN, have been keeping a live reporting going through the night and day, while not a single French channel has been doing it, but at most summarising events in news reports, being more occupied with their own strikes than the historic events unfolding before our eyes. I'm not sure how I can interpret this in the sense that the French are much more interested in other countries than the British. The Chilean president and mining minister have not been too arrogant to address the international media in English. This would never have happened in France. Let's recall that former French president Chirac once stormed out of an EU meeting because the French speaker was speaking English. President Sarkozy is even incapable of speaking English. 120. Date:
2010-10-04, From:
Raph33inUK I have read your pages about Britain and France, and I must say that if the "cliché" and over-exaggeration of the arguments can be quite clear about the UK, it doesn't feel the same in what you wrote about France. My first comment would be that, having read your account and judgement about France , your 8 years in the country must have been a living hell for you and I praise your tenacity. While I partly agree with you on the hypocrisy of the system, and some points about customer service particularly in Paris, I feel that you have sometimes created universal laws from particular issues. First of all, Paris is not France and is even considered in France itself as a specific entity in terms of behaviour and lifestyle. As someone already mentioned in her comments, if you visit the south-west (where I a from), you will realise that your experience doesn't give a fair account of what the French are as a whole. After reading your article, readers could be amazed that, in truth, France is actually not a third-world country plagued by an apocalyptical way of life. They could also wonder why so many people want to and do move to France, particularly the British. If the French administration can be a tough experience, that is fortunately not always the case and, as a Frenchman being born in the country and having lived there for 33 years, I could give you many examples that would counterbalance yours, and show you that, if things can REALLY happen the way you described them, it is in NO WAY representative of the whole. In this respect, I had quite a shock when I moved to the UK, having in mind stereotypes of Britain and the British. I suddenly realised that the French were not as bad as some people depict them and the British not as wonderful and law-abiding as I thought. If the French administration can be heavy and slow, the British one is far more intrusive, constraining and soviet-like in their methods. But thank God, Health & Safety regulations are going to be scrapped by the new government. If dog poo really is a plague in France and in Paris particularly, although it is slowly changing, Britain is COVERED in litter, and I was quite shocked at how such pigs the Brits are in this respect. It often makes me sick I can tell you, seeing endless piles of rubbish absolutely everywhere, even in remote places. It is quite surprising, coming from a people so proud of who they are and of their island. About the strikes, you rightfully mentioned that they were carried out by a minority of spoiled unions who are only interested in they own advantages at the expense of everything else, often claiming to defend the rights of all workers while in fact defending their own only. But you forgot to mention that many people in France are getting tired of this and complain a lot about it, and I'm sure that if more people knew that these Unions were only pretending to fight for everyone while trying to protect their own very unfair advantages, less people would support them. Again, with the unions only representing less than 10% of French workers, and being mostly Marxist-Communist orientated, you can't in all honesty claim that "the French" are like, when it concerns a very specific group of people. I have also realised that France looks definitely richer than the UK! In spite of the waste of public money in France, due to many corrupt politicians or simply bad managing, there is quite visible proof that France is in a better shape! If you only look at the NHS or the infrastructures, there is no need to debate for hours. British roads are worthy of a third-world country, and the NHS is on the brink of collapse. When I hear that the new government is planning cuts, I just wonder what is left to cut anyway... About the arrogance of the French and their "exception Française", I have to admit that, if it is true that the French are proud of their culture, including gastronomy (which in my opinion is not as declining as you suggest, at least in my region of origin which is Aquitaine), literature, art, lifestyle in general, they are also open to and promote foreign cultures and this is reflected in things such as the success of foreign literature in France, amongst other things. I do not feel the same thing AT ALL in Britain. As you said in your article, everything has to be British. If you watch TV you realise that interesting programmes about Art are not about Art, but British Art, History programmes about British History, etc etc They are so self-centred that it sometimes confines to nationalism and in some cases leads to xenophobia, of which one can easily find examples in newspapers such as the Daily Mail. They bend reality to match their own expectations about themselves! At the moment, TV is flooded with documentaries about the Battle of Britain and the campaign of France in 1940. They only talk about themselves and when they depict the Miracle of Dunkirk, they ALWAYS forget to mention that this miracle was made possible because the remains of 7 French Infantry Divisions ALONE sacrificed themselves in Lille and around Dunkirk for this miracle to happen. At least the French, when they deal with such matters, have the elegance and the objectivity to include all aspects of the problem and not just what suits the French self-centred pride. About TV, contrary to what you said, and having lived in France for 33 years, I can assure you that, they are good programmes, and not only on Arte. British TV also has good programmes, but has more trashy and trashier programmes, not to mention the plague of adverts every 10 minutes. I don't think rubbish on TV is a French "exception", so again, your point was a bit unfair on that. Plus the fact that you mentioned TF1 several times as your source to build your criticism, this channel being by far the worst (or best?) example when you want to find bad things to say about French TV. About the French school system, you forgot to say that it is a pyramidal, rigid, obtuse, uniform, creativity-destroying system. But you didn't, so I'm doing it for you. On the whole, while I think you have grabbed some of the truth about how things work in France, I also think that your experience has been worse than the average reality is, considering that Paris and la Provence are probably the most extreme examples you could get of the French life-style. I honestly do not think you would experience something so negative in the west part of the country. In case you think I am only trying to blind myself about my own country and that I would be one of those self-important Frenchmen, I can tell you that I am very Anglophile, I do speak and enjoy speaking/learning several foreign languages, although I must admit I have a slight preference for the beauty of my native one. As a conclusion I would like you to believe that, despite the terrible experience you had in my country, not everything is like what you described. At least it is certainly not what I have experienced as a Frenchman. Some of it perhaps to a certain extent, but only some and not to the extent you describe. I feel sorry about that and hope that you find the opportunity to change your views, with time. Author's comment: Thank you for a very thoughtful addition to the visitor's book. I quite agree with what you say. You have very keenly observed the different styles of the British and French pages. The pages were originally written about 10 years ago, and although they have been regularly edited, there are many things I would have written differently today if I had started all over. I am increasingly aware of the regional differences of France, but unfortunately, I have never been to the western parts. I think one's administrative experience of France depends on what one does. A fonctionnaire who remains all his life in the same job in the same département and who never changes career and who never creates any type of independent activity, etc., is likely to have far fewer problems than what I have been through. The weaknesses of the French administration are often seen in relation to change and to self-employment and small business. Many French small business owners I have spoken to over the years are just as fed up with the way the system treats them as I am. In Denmark, you have to think like a brain-washed Dane to enjoy the country (hence, I left). In France, you have to be part of the big 'system' to live well. If you try to do something on your own, you quickly find out that nothing has been designed for that. It was with quite some amusement that I read an article about reforms in Cuba in the Daily Telegraph recently. It was as if parts of the article could have been written about France, such as for example: "To be self-employed in Cuba was once tantamount to being counter-revolutionary" and "the announcement published a list of 178 areas of self employment which are now legal" (note: in France, it is illegal, for example, for a self-employed person to provide home care for the elderly, even with a diploma). One could be forgiven for thinking that the French administration sometimes consider the self-employed to be enemies of the State. That is a major difference from the UK, but unfortunately, there are many other problems in the UK, as you know. If you combined the best parts of France and Britain, you could have a wonderful country, whereas if you combined the worst parts, it would be worse than hell. The trouble is that what is good in France is bad in Britain and what is good in Britain is bad in France - to cut it out in a cliché. About the many Britons wanting to move to France, I believe that many of them fall for touristy-style descriptions of nature, gastronomy and all that, these parts being difficult to find in Britain, but some of those who intend to start their own businesses later find out that if you are not extremely careful, the system of social charges can totally crush you in France. Concerning schools, I didn't have children in school when I started the page, but with two children born in 2000 and 2002, I now start getting to know the French school system better. As you say, it's not always a pleasant experience. They overload them from too early an age, and the results don't seem to be better than in countries with a softer and/or later start. Everybody has to start at the same age, whether mature or not, with the result that many end up with learning problems. The old-fashioned ideas such as using writing as punishment, and learning poems by heart, are just incredible. If you teach them that writing is punishment, how do they expect to get them interested in learning? I'm aware that more and more French people understand the selfishness of the unions. One just has to read readers' comments in newspapers and unofficial polls to understand that. 119. Date:
2009-07-25, From:
Ken I think that Denmark counts for more in the world than Portugal, whose people go on and on about how they were a great seafaring empire 400 years ago. I think the Danes had it right: when their country went bankrupt, it got rid of what few colonies it had, but when Portugal went bankrupt, it decided to colonise Africa. Today, Denmark makes what the world wants to buy, like Carlsberg, Lurpak, and Bang & Olufsen, and buys what the world has to offer. But can you name one Portuguese global brand? Exactly. I don't think Danish would be any harder for me to learn than German and Dutch, but I can't get my mouth around "rød grød med fløde". Sorry. Author's comment: I entirely agree, particularly about it being a good thing Denmark isn't Sweden.
118. Date:
2009-07-19, From:
Anthony I never quite understood janteloven. At first I thought it was an ironic in-joke, but I was over estimating the capacity for irony amongst the average Dane. When I realized that they were serious about it I started to worry... As it goes most of the Danish friends I made when I lived there were what the British commonly refer to as the "underclass" and so were never too representative of the average Dane, which is probably why I liked them and got on with them. They were types that the rest of Danish society seemed to dislike so much, although it was a while before I realized this. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what the issues with janteloven are without sounding petty, but you do it pretty well. I remember once being told that I was washing some crockery incorrectly (can you imagine?!) and the precise comment was "WE don't do it like that" - as I say, it seems innocuous, but it felt to me like he was saying "we, the Danish people, do not do it like that" and I had visions of classes in dishwashing being taught at the local school! Another thing that really stuck in my mind was the official list of children's names - that cracked me up. The idea that someone in officialdom could decide what you may or may not name your child, and how you should spell it! Although to be fair, if we had something similar in Britain we might be spared the hordes of Chelsea's and Jordan's...... Being ridiculed whenever I tried to speak danish was another irritation, however the best foil to this is to learn the language - which is what I did. And fair play once you've got the language cracked folk are generally a lot easier to get on with - my biggest regret is that by the time I really got to grips with it I'd gotten bored with the place and wanted to leave! The one thing that REALLY hacked me off in Denmark though was the British guys who'd shacked up with Danish au-pairs and moved to Denmark to spend the rest of the lives complaining that the langauge was "too f**king hard mate, innit?" Ignorant British expats need a site of their own to be fully exposed as the hapless fools that they all too often are. The overwhelming impression though was of a society anaesthetized by the belief that spending your entire life working hard all week while someone else (the state) brings up your kids because equal rights mean that mum and dad have to work was a good thing (never stopping to think that actually it's because you are state wage slaves that someone else is bringing up your kids and you have been peddled the line that you are free and of course you can both have a career) Pity the same is true in Britain, but here mum and dad have to work because they are financially compelled to. Although that is probably part of another state mind control experiment, but being British we blame it on class. I really liked Danish houses and design in general, until I realized that all Danish people ever did was sit inside them and ponder whether the designer furniture was overly flashy. They needn't worry too much as they had no intention of ever letting anyone else in to see it anyway! And the cars! What a scam that is. Free trade and movement in Europe, but not for a car in Denmark! Of course the danes are told it is for the good of the environment - yeah right! Thing is, I really miss the place and generally bore people rigid abouthow great it was and praise it to the heavens and to be honest I'd probably go and live there again if I could be arsed with the effort of moving! Bizarre really... Anyway, I always think of Woody Allens' comment when it comes to issues of where the best place to live might be.... "The world? Well it's nice for a holiday but I wouldn't want to live there" oh yeah forgot to say. For all that Janteloven annoyed and exasperated, it has to be said that if we had just a little bit of that "tankegang" [way of thinking] in Britain, we might have escaped the ravages of Jade Goody and countless other reality TV addled, self-obsessed, f**k-witted inbreeds that seem to be so inexplicably popular in the British "culture". thx again!
117. Date:
2009-05-12, From:
(anonymous) Thanks so much for this site. It is exactly the experience I had while in Denmark. I experienced the Jante Law all the time from colleagues and neighbors alike. First it was the German registered car that got me a visit from Told and Skat threatening me with fines despite the fact that the car was a cheap French car and I considered it personal moving goods. I suspect an envious neighbor called them. I also had experienced the civil court system which is one of the most corrupt I have ever experienced. Only in Denmark can a lawyer have such a blatant conflict of interest and the judge saw no problem with it because in this small Jutland town, everyone knows everyone else and the foreigners are just there to suck up the welfare from them. Witnessed lied and despite the written evidence, I lost the case. I couldn't believe it! The health care system is a joke as well. I never met so many incompetent and lazy doctors in my life. And this is a modern western country! I recently met a Dane who would not accept any of these truths. I started to give my arguments but then I decided to just give up. I am not one of those interventionist deprogrammers that work to get people out of cults. I haven't the time to try to undo the brainwashing.
116. Date:
2009-04-12, From:
(name withheld) I am a Danish American born in the states. I also lived in Denmark for some time, went to school there, and still have my entire family living there. My husband is 100% American and he has said the same exact things you have written for years. I let him read your page and he felt vindicated. I have to admit that since birth, to spite being brought up here in the states, I had been brainwashed with the Danish Superiority crap. Anyway, I was glad to see a Dane say what needed to be said. There are a lot of things Danish that I think are great, but clearly there are a lot of things Danish that are not just not great, they are terrible. As you have seen, I want to remain anonymous because I would hate for some of my family and friends to see what I have written here and get pissed off. Anyway, great page and keep up the good work. mvh, Mette P.S. As my husband read this, he said you know when we first met, you were just like what they are describing...and that's being raised by Danish parents in America..... My husband thankfully straightened me out. HAHAHAHAHA~!
115. Date: 2009-04-10, From:
(name and e-mail withheld) I have lived here for 25 years, and have concidered myself a "pro american" since I was 8 yrs. old. I am still Danish at heart, but have always accepted the faults that comes with it!! No one is perfect, I truly love my family, my country, and even the traditions that dictate how to eat open -faced sandwiches, and other foods, that will never change, because I believe it's "THE RIGHT WAY"!! but have never been able to agree on the politics they believe in. (My Dad had an incline, but he's gone now) I truly miss the opportunity to discuss the current affairs with him! I am a hard core Dane/Us, who believe in"death penalty" and justice for anyone who deserves it. There are too much injustice going on in this world right now, and it needs to get evened out!!
114. Date: 2009-01-15, From:
(name and e-mail withheld) For the last 11 months, I've had my application in at Udlændingeservice, seeking permission to be a full-time working resident. (I don't want permanent residency - just a work permit). They still can't come to a decision - as I'm an enigma case, without a Danish spouse and with no roots in this country. Nonetheless, I pay my taxes and work full-time (which I believe I'm allowed to do, as long as my case is pending?). My first year in DK was like a dream. Everything was shiny, organized, clean, safe and well-dressed. Then, pushing 2 years, I began to see the cracks in the façade. Things that are lacking in the system started to stick out like sore thumbs: where are the streets manners, why don't people look me in the eye, why is there a ministry departments that has to approve all baby names? Why, when I broke my shoulder in two places, was I sent home with panodil and no follow-up appointments? Why do people act embarrassed when you talk to them in public? When entering any public or private building, if you wait for the person in front of you to hold the door open, you're getting a door slammed in your face. The door-slam, to me, has become emblematic of Denmark's personality. I don't think Danes realize how rude their behaviours can be, like when a foreigner attempts to speak Danish and receives uproarious laughter. Some people appreciate my fumbling attempts at Danish, some people pay more attention to my thick, amusing accent. When I respond over-sensitively, then I'm told I just don't get Danish humor. There are rules for everything here, so much that I want to flip out and create a scene sometimes when I have to take a number and 'get in line' at the bakery, the post office, the bank, the kommune, just so I can wait for someone to look me in the eye. There are rules for the order in which you eat your breakfast (rugbrød before frøesnapper). Just for laughs, see how your colleagues react when you eat Italiansalat with the wrong bread. The thing that is so laughable is that Danes think they live in the most liberal, open-minded, free-spirited, pot-smoking, trendy-scarf-wearing, Christiania-loving, first-to-legalize-porn Kind of Place. When in actuality, they can be the most tight-assed, repressed people with their damn rules for everything. God forbid you break one, then you're either looney, wrong, or you think you're better than everyone else. They even have rules that guarantee equal/free time allotted to porn on the public channels. Because that's how free and wacky and open-minded they are it's earmarked in the budget! It's difficult to describe to my sweet Danish boyfriend how startling I find it that everyone in Denmark thinks nearly the same. And they don't realize that they do. Try being a moderate, Republican (oh the horror!), critically-thinking American who doesn't drink the same kool-aid as everyone else, explain to her friends that decent people with an R next to their names do exist! I didn't meet a single person in DK during the entire American Presidential campaign that didn't question for a second the pro-Obama/anti-old-guy propaganda (news) they were spoon-fed by the Danish media. The same happened in the U.S., but at least people were talking about the spin. I'm no apologist for George W. Bush and the last 8 devastating years, and I'm proud of Obama s decisive victory. But as a Hollywood actor once said, I measure the quality of America's President by how much the French hate him. The French really hate Bush, so he must be doing something right. To live in Denmark, you must turn her lamer qualities into interesting curiosities, which I try to do on a daily basis. The babies are the most precious on the planet the pastries are great the historic buildings are beautiful. I guess I'm still an American, trying to find the happy-ending here. Finn, I appreciate your site I'm glad there's a place with this kind of quality debate. Keep up the great work!
113. Date: 2008-04-20, From:
(name and e-mail withheld) Danish language is really far away from any possible logic! I'm afraid my language teacher (even though he is great) will sooner or later start planning a murder because I keep asking him to give at least a FEW rules for the Danish language system - no success, as you've mentioned earlier. So learning Danish is as solving a puzzle, though I have fun in my study. "Styrelsen" [Udlændigestyrelsen; the department for foreigners] really seems to be exercising pure sadism, breaking families to pieces. I happened to be married to a Dane and we faced "all the pleasures" in practice. Even though we were lucky getting my first permission, I don't know how it can turn in future. Now every three months we should go to the job-center to renew my integration contract. And every time I'm asked if I'm going to work soon. And every time I'm reminding my nice lady, that no one needs me on the job market without proper Danish, unless I'm going to clean offices, which I'm certainly not going to do. At least she agrees. By the way, my Ukrainian education is somehow not matching the Danish system. So if I want to be a teacher here, I should start everything from the beginning, and forget my 6 years at the university. At the same time one can teach one's own language in "handel skole" having no idea how to do it at all. Janteloven! This is an amayzing artefact! People hardly know its lines, but many surely use it in everyday life! (this is to disagree with the Dane, who said time has changed etc.). Here's an example. We are building a new house in a historical and very much preserved part of town. Long story indeed, but fact is that we were allowd to do it. OFFICIALLY! And the biggest part was achieved by my stubborn husband, who really managed to win over the kommune. And here immediately appears our unfortunatelly future "nabo" [neighbour] who says, "How come that the previous two owners didn't get anything, and suddenly you came and - here we go!" Just like this! I was simply shocked by this. It happened in my presence - but what could I do? Whatever I would have liked to respond to it could easily bring me to the local police station :) No, I like it here, in Denmark! If to enjoy the beautiful landscapes and forever-green grass, and purely clean air and so on... But I don't know what I will meet with, when I f.ex. need to go to job and socialize with other Danes... One more thing. Danes are Danes, they are like this ever since and as long as it goes - I don't very much care. Many thing they are happy. But what is close to be disgusting for me, that many ex-Ukraines and ex-Russians, now living here, are becoming pretty much Danes-like. I mean, they absorb Janteloven so quickly and so easily, and it seems to suite them naturally. "Janteloven is a very good thing", says one Ukrainian woman on one of the forums. "One can feel oneself very relaxed having it, as you don't have to prove anything to anyone, you don't have to jump over your own head... Comforting, isn't it?" - As for me, terrifying indeed! What about proving something to your own self? - that you want, you can and you will! Thank you for your work! It is provoking and inspiring! And supportive, as it shows that one is not alone in its opinions - and yet still can be The One. P.S. It is funny, how Danish Danes cannot stand the critic, even though general and constructive. Met it on some web-sites.
112. Date: 2008-02-27, From:
Leander 1) Criticism: While I heard almost all of the viewpoints before, the method of taking extreme positions makes you consider the issues one more time. Faced with such criticism I felt more motivated to think not only about counterarguments but also more curious about finding the actually truth about the claims. In general the page made me think much more vigorous about the subjects. 2) Outside view: I never doubted that people from outside your own country are able to view it in a way that you will never be able to yourself. The feedback from outside your own country will therefore often be extremely valuable (or at least interesting) because it reveals circumstances otherwise invisible. This is probably also why traveling is so highly recommended as a way of learning - you obtain another kind of knowledge. However since I am still young and never really had the means or the interest in settling down in another country (mainly because I have a hard time learning a new language) I never thought I would be able to see Denmark from the outside angel. Of course I am still not able to do this, but this site has at least given me a flicker of how it feels. Simply put the site makes it easier to understand strangers in your own country. 3) Experience / Art: They say that the purpose of art is to provoke. It s above all doubt that this page according to this view is a great work of art. The experience is maybe not unique but close to - very rarely have I read texts like this one. The mix of sarcasm, exaggerations, well-known criticism and real-life experience is both confusing and frightening. It s a bit like finding out that you have been in need of glasses the last 10 years and that the real world might look different next time you walk outside and put them on. It s a bit like reading science fiction about the present. I wonder if there is a genre inside literature which attempts to write in the same way as you. Suggestions: 1) Make (some) people read the country pages before they read the disclaimers. Let the disclaimers be at the end of the country page or provide a link to main page from there. I think it would make much stronger impressions. 2) If you can find another subject than countries, try to write about them in the same way too. It might be hard, but if you like to write stuff like this you might as well use your ability to collect criticism and negative experiences. Author's comments: This is one of the best opinions ever received, because you step outside an immediate personal opinion and view it all from an abstract standpoint in a global view. Leaving certain things to the interpretation of the reader is probably not the worst one can do. Outside view? Interesting discussion, since I am Danish and spent my first 32 years in Denmark. But this page was written after expatriation, and the comments from foreigners on the page are certainly outside views. Living in another country for at least a few years is one of the most interesting experiences one can have. It helps immensely when trying to find out what is facts and what is myths about one's own country and the expatriation country. It helps establishing what are the true qualities of the country one left and the expatriation country, and what are the real problems. The result is likely to be far from mainstream media's presentations if one can put all prejudice aside. For one reason because their job is to sell media and in order to do that, they have to write things people want to read.
111. Date: 2008-02-21, From:
(name and e-mail withheld)
110. Date: 2008-01-27, From:
(anonymous) Author's comments: The eloquence of certain readers never ceases to amaze me. Such statements will do wonders to further the dialogue.
109. Date: 2008-01-26, From:
Morten Egestrand 1. It is very easy to see that you haven't been living in Denmark for more than 15 years. What you desribe is clearly an image of Denmark going years back. I take as you must have grown up here in the 70's and 80's. Today Denmark looks quite different. The general attitude I find very hard to match the one described here on the web-site, as I believe a lot of things have changed. A lot of the the things described are actually wrong looking at denmark today. It is illegal to smoke in public places, you do not have to belong to particular workers giuld, the state today has no debt, today it is a lot harder to get financial help from the government when you are out of work, and you cannot get it for as long as you used to. By the way there is less than 3 % of the population in the "Working age" that are unemployed. Just to mentioned the ones I noticed. 2. About the Jantelov; to tell you the truth I only know very few people that actually know it in full lengt, where it came from, and what it's actually about. Not to mention reading the book where it originates from and understanding the context of it. When people talk about the Jantelov today it has nothing to do with the origanal text. Today, they simply mean that they don't like people to go around bragging loudly for everyone to hear about how good they are compared to everyone else. And I garantee you making a servey, you would be very surprised how few people know the actual Jantelov. Today the attitude is way different, and no one thinks less of you if you believe in youself and pursuade the things you want in life. I will put my main criticism on the website on this: A: The tone is very harsh and I think that's why so many disagree with you. If I told you that you were a communist, ignorant, stupid, lying, redicoulus and let your government fuck around with you, the first thing you would do was to defend yourself. Just as prooved on this comment site. I think it would be nice to mention a few of the good things in Denmark, or are there not any at all? B: You give readers the impressison that because of the somtimes stupid system, and the rulers of it, in Denmark, the people living here are equally stupid. Not all Americans have the same approach to life as Georg Bush you know? And I strongly believe that the same thing accounts for Denmark. I guess I just think it's sad that you've had such a bad impression on Denmark and that a lot of other people are getting the same. You have to remember that: Danes are some of the happiest and most satisfied people in the world We have one of the lowest poverty rates in the world People are happy about the welfare system and thus paying the high taxes to support it. I would like to take an example in the U.S., the so called land of the free. Because of the low tax they apparantly have more freedom than us. Perhabs. But if you add expenses for health care, pension, college education for your kids and so on, I bet you that an average Dane has more money left to himself than the average American. I realize that it doesn't make Denmark a more free and democratic country, but I would just like you and all the readers to remember that apporach to the Danish welfare system. The Danes like the fact that no matter what happens they can get education and healt care. In the U.S. there is a very high rate of poverty and crime (there a areas where the police barely goes), numerous cases of priests mollesting (sorry for the spelling) children, lawyers and doctors cheating people. The food is absolutely horrible and the population is the most obese in the world. Those are cases of the same type as you mention for reasons to hate Denmark. I really don't belive that it would be fair for me to now say that the U.S. is a horrible contry without freedom and liberty and the people living there are ignorant and stupid. Do you? Maybe the fact that the president wasn't elected by the majority of the population, that he has a veto and can interpret laws just as he wants to, as well as prisoners being kept overseas without knowing why and having the right to a trial as stated by the constitution, has something to do with "freedom"? I just want people to remember that the opposit of the Danish welfare system has its problems too. I hope you take this as constructive criticism, because that was how it was ment. Author's comments: Thanks for your very interesting comments. Born in 1960, you are completely right that I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s until I emigrated definitively in 1993, aged 33. You have very precisely pinpointed the period upon which the Danish page is based. That said, readers' input would have been based on a later period. The illegal smoking must be very recent, as I was confronted with endless smokers as late as in June 2006. However, what you say about Denmark having no debt is false. I have updated the Danish page with the most recent figures from the Danish Statistical office, presently showing a gross public debt of 63 billion euros, or 11,500 € per person. You are not the first one to claim in recent years that Denmark has little or no debt. Why is that? Is Danish press manipulating the truth about this? Anyone can check the official figures at www.dst.dk. Yes, the tone is harsh. It reflects how it was when I lived in Denmark and there was little space for any other opinions than the politically correct ones. You were treated harshly if you dared say anything else than the "approved" opinion. Denmark is today treating certain immigrants and particularly married couples where one is Danish and the other not even more harshly than when I emigrated. Harsh treatment brings harsh reactions. I am aware that many don't like to hear certain things, but I am not going to soften the tone just to suit them. Danes are brought up to seek a common standpoint for everybody in a group, and to be nice. It is part of the culture. Isolated opinions in a group are not well seen. This is useful for many purposes, and it often makes workplaces function better, but it marginalises and isolates people with differing opinions. I am not seeking to please everybody or anyone, or to be nice; hence, I attract the wrath of many Danes. In fact, I never felt the system or the culture was "nice" to me. I was fleeced in tax. Socialist governments continuously referred to people like me with moderate incomes as "rich" people who ought to bear the heaviest burdens. I had to emigrate if I wanted to see my wife - and so I did. Many Danes are in the same situation today, having to flee their own country in order to live with their wives. A socialist tax minister violated the law and an international treaty just so he could fleece me and a few others a bit more. Was all that "nice"? Why should I be "nice" in return? There are positive things to say about Denmark, of course, but there is no lack of other resources where this can be found. In fact, a lot of literature about Denmark is exclusively positive. Should we also ask writers of such literature if there is nothing negative to say? Must every piece absolutely contain at least some positive statements? If you get the impression that I say that Danes are stupid, it must be for your own account. What I do say is that Danes are conditioned from small to accept the system. Danes claim to be some of the happiest people in the world, so it must be working for most - but not for all. The trouble is that for the diverging minority, Denmark may not be quite so nice a place to be. Many, but far from everybody, are happy about the state of the welfare system and the high taxes it causes. The USA and other countries have other problems, such as notably health care and crime in the US. But health care alone does not explain the very high taxes in Denmark, the real cost of a European health care system being in the order of 3,000 € per person per year, very roughly set. The UK manages to provide health care not far from the standard of the Danish system, but for less taxes. The USA is far from perfect, but child molesting is happening everywhere, and dishonest lawyers and doctors is not an exclusively American phenomenon. I didn't say that Danes are ignorant or stupid, so I don't see the point of mentioning that in the case of the USA. A foreign reader, Renata, quoted did mention "ignorants", but that is her unedited word and must stand for her account. I would not want to censure readers' accounts. Danish tax authorities, from the tax minister and down, have repeatedly broken the law simply to increase tax revenue. What you said about the American president: "can interpret laws just as he wants to" equally applies to Danish tax authorities. To conclude, each person does not have the same experiences. Many Danes are happy about their system. A minority are not, and it is when they - or foreigners not conditioned to Danish thinking - try to expand their limits that problems start arising. From that point on, Denmark can be hell for a few, while the majority don't mind so long as they can live their quiet, regulated life.
108. Date: 2007-11-06, From:
Alan Author's comments: Alan, it's a shame you only found out too late, but at least your comments can help warning others. Unfortunately for myself, I've gone from the frying pan and into the fire by having emigrated from one communist paradise, Denmark, to another communist paradise, France. Caveat emptor!
107. Date: 2007-02-16, From:
cyril Author's comments: Gee, thanks for having taken the time to write such an eloquent opinion. Yours is a significant contribution to beaming out the French "cultural exception" and linguistic excellence to the entire world. Your English vocabulary is impressive: "shit, bullshit, stupid, dumb - and unuseless". That's the spirit of European integration!
106. Date: 2007-01-30, From:
Fred The thing I didn´t really liked in your description is that you are taking mainly single cases, but talks about it as would it be a generality. Of course, you might be someone defying the statistic rules, but your are describing situations that might happen in maybe 1 or 2 percent of the reality. The other fact that disturbed me is that I made a test. I changed in your text every "french" and "frenchman" words by "arab" or words like that. What is pretty funny is that I then have a speech of Jeam- Marie (notice the Jean, please) Le Pen under my nose. I´m not against criticism against my own country. But the problem is by you writing this are giving a really bad bad image of my countrymen to the rest of the world. In fact, a french who´s reading this can understand what you are talking about and where you are exagerating. But someone who doesn´t know the coutry could take that as a real report of the reality, and believe in those clichés. Maybe you should take care of what you are writing because I´m sure you are not a racist person, but I´m also sure that your descriptions could be used by racist people. As someone originated from a foreign country and who had to face such clichés everyday because such jokes like yours where made over my country since the 60s, I just give you the advice not to underestimate the power you have by writing those lines. Mais comme disait Coluche, le racisme, c´est comme les nègres, ca devrait pas exister ! Keep on writing. Author's comments: Hi, thanks for taking the time to express your opinion. I am unable to put statistic numbers on the problems I describe in France. It's true that a general image cannot be produced from individual accounts. That's why I start the page by underscoring that this page is not an objective description. That is more than what tourist brochures and other positive style information produced by France do. In fact, the image I had of France from such sources is quite different from the reality one experiences when living here. I have never heard anyone express concern that overly positive descriptions of France, as descriptions of France mostly are, could be taken as reports of reality and that people who don't know France could believe such information. It is interesting to observe that you and others then express concern about accounts that focus on the negative aspects that are largely ignored by the vast majority of publications about France. Do you and these other persons also contact the authors of positive-only publications to express concern that they do not mention the negative parts of reality? Now, while I describe single cases, if they were so rare as you indicate, then I wonder how it can be that during 8 years in France, I have experienced all this - and much more that I have not (yet) written about. If you modify the text and put "arab" or anything else in case of what I have written, the result must be for your own account. I can clearly not answer for others' modifications. As for giving a bad image about France: The French president and government do not hesitate to criticise other countries' political decisions or their violations of human rights. France itself does not respect all human rights, and there is a number of very real problems in France. France claims that it wants more political integration of Europe, but it has a record of not respecting EU law already voted, by not transposing directives within the deadline, or by simply not respecting EU law. If it disturbs the French that describing what is really happening in the country could give a bad image, then maybe instead of wanting to silence the writers it might be worth considering if there might not be some things to improve. Wiping off concrete criticism as "clichés" is simply too cheap. I do mention a few clichés, but they are not the rule on the page. As for racism, there is not a single word of racism or any direct or indirect attack on France's immigrant population on my site. I can never prevent people with bad intentions from abusing texts I have written or other writers' texts. I frankly don't see any connection between what is mainly a criticism of France's native white population and the country's immigration issues. If people behave in a racist way, it must be for their own account, and I simply cannot take any responsibility for that. As for Jean-Marie Le Pen, without pronouncing myself about his politics, it is the case that he has blacks, jews and arabs in his office. How would that be compatible with being a racist? The word racist is in itself being abused. Again without pronouncing myself about Le Pen, it is very much the case in France that the mainstream media are run with connections to mainstream political parties and that they have all interest in describing Le Pen as badly as possible. All I say is that if Le Pen and others are to be criticised, it should be done because of what they do and say and not because of a fabricated and simplified image. The totally unacceptable situation surrounding the immigrant population in concrete suburbs has been created exclusively by mainstream political parties, not by Front National. If they accept the number of immigrants into the country that they have done, they should also have taken care of suitable conditions for integration, but all they have done is to pile the immigrants up in concrete towers and let them take care of themselves, with the disastrous result we see. Now, to hammer home the point that I am not a Le Pen supporter, let me just say that if I were French, I would not find one single political party or candidate attractive to vote for.
105. Date: 2006-06-15, From:
Anja Rasmussen
Author's comments:
104. Date: 2006-11-21, From:
bob
Author's comments:
103. Date: 2006-09-28, From:
John
102. Date: 2006-08-29, From:
(anonymous)
Author's comments:
101. Date: 2006-06-21, From:
Guillaume Author's comments: Jaloux ? Non ! Un bon travailleur peut facilement être plus efficace en 35H qu'un moins bon en 40H. Mais la limite dure du premier régime 35H, qui était inflexible, était un problème, notamment pour les petites entreprises. Au moins c'est plus flexible maintenant. Il n'y a pas de mal à chercher la vie aussi convenable que possible, mais lorsqu'on vie au-dessus de ses moyens, comme la France, ça devient problématique si on continue à s'occuper du confort avant le travail. Je suis le premier à dire qu'il y a un grand nombre de chômeurs et RMIstes qui ne veulent pas travailler. C'est incontestable. Mais de là à dire que chacun peut obtenir du travail sans problème, c'est faux, même si la personne est motivée et avec des qualifications. Il y a une bonne couverture sociale de la plupart de la population, mais il y a aussi des 'trous' où le RMI n'est pas disponible même pour des personnes dans le besoin réel qui souhaitent travailler. Inversement, le RMI est trop facilement versé à tout et chacun qui n'a pas envie de travailler. Dans les Bouches-du-Rhône, les conseillers généraux avaient commencé à poser la question aux services pourquoi la plupart des RMIstes de leur département n'avaient jamais signé un contrat d'insertion. Perversement, certaines personnes qui travaillent un peu mais sans avoir beaucoup de revenus feraient mieux d'arrêter le travail, simplement pour pouvoir obtenir le RMI qui leur est refusé s'ils travaillent un peu. Les allocations familiales sont parfois plus généreuses à ceux qui ont des revenus confortables qu'à ceux qui se trouvent avec des chutes de revenus importants ; effet pervers du décalage de 1 à 2 ans entre les allocations et les revenus dont elles sont basées. Où est l'idée de payer une aide au logement à une famille avec 2 enfants qui gagne 10,000 € par mois, par exemple, pendant que cette aide n'est pas payé à une famille pareille sans revenus ? Seule la logique française pourrait inventer un système si pervers. Il y a des bonnes intentions avec le système social, mais il y a des défauts qui ont des effets très graves pour ceux qui se trouvent dans les 'trous'. Le système est plutôt conçu sur la perception fausse que tout le monde reste figé dans la situation où ils se trouvent, car le système gère très mal les changements de situation. Le système anglais est mieux dans cet aspect, car il regarde la situation actuelle de la personne; non pas la situation deux ans précédemment. Personne n'a dit qu'il devrait exister un pays sans défauts. Et alors, si tous les pays ne sont pas parfaits, on ne peut en critiquer aucun ? C'est encore de la logique française ? C'est en effet la critique qui permet l'amélioration. Seul l'imbécile croit qu'il est parfait. La critique en soi n'est pas forcément une mauvaise chose. Ce n'est pas toujours évident de partir dans un autre pays au moment où on veut, mais cela ne va pas dire que je n'ai pas sérieusement pensé à m'installer dans un pays qui est moins hostile envers ceux qui veulent travailler en indépendants, car ce n'est pas un groupe privilégé comme les CDI. C'est là le problème en France en quelques mots : le confort est recompensé et le risque puni !
100. Date: 2006-06-21, From:
(anonymous) Author's comments: Le futur va montrer qui a raison. Celui qui lit une sélection de la presse et des livres françaises saura que je suis loin d'être le seul à dire ce que je dis. Luc Ferry et Raymond Barre ont des choses très sensibles à dire dans "l'Expansion" de juin 2006, par exemple. Ivan Rioufol écrit des propos bien réflêchis tous les vendredis au Figaro. Villepin avait commencé la bonne route pour l'économie, même s'il aurait pu le mieux faire au niveau de tactic, mais Chirac le lâche l'a arrêté. Même Ségolène Royal commence à dire certaines choses sensibles, ce qui est évidemment mal supporté par la vieille garde du PS. Mais la plupart des Français restent 'je m'en foutistes' et continuent à tricher un peu partout pour se défendre contre un État invahissent. Si les Français du sud ouest sont moins cyniques que ceux en Provence, il faudra peut-être que je le visite.
99. Date: 2006-06-20, From:
(anonymous) Author's comments: C'est plutôt triste d'observer l'état léthargique de ce beau pays, car le pays même est beau. Ce qui s'y passe, pas vraiment. Après 8 ans en France, il est clair que l'état réel du pays n'a pas grand-chose à voir avec l'image que le pays présente à l'étranger. La très bonne image que j'avais de la France en 1998 est maintenant totalement détruite, ayant laissé la place aux réalités dures. On pourrait aussi demander les millions de chômeurs et RMIstes, pour ne pas parler de ceux qui vivent dans la rue sans RMI, s'ils n'ont pas quelque chose de constructive à dire. On pourrait demander les Français fortunés qui ont fuit le pays pour raison des taxes confiscatoires tel que la taxe sur la fortune s'ils n'auraient pas plutôt envie pour travailler pour leur pays - si le pays était d'accord de ne pas les surtaxer. Le pays est figé dans un état où ceux qui ont des privilèges font tout pour les garder, n'importe les conséquences pour ceux qui ne sont pas déjà dans le 'système'. C'est quelque part paradoxal que le Partie Socialiste d'aujourd'hui est là pour défendre les privilèges de la classe moyenne mais laisse les classes les plus démunies sans grand espoir. Car c'est ça la conséquence de bloquer une réforme du Code du Travail. Le PS est devenu le vrai partie conservateur du nouveau siècle. À qui va-t-il bénéficier d'avoir élévé la jeunesse d'aujourd'hui pour croire que la vie comme fonctionnaire est le nirvana, au point que 75% des jeunes le souhaitent ? On leur a raconté des fantaisies, ce qui ne peut que le rendre même plus dûr pour eux de s'adapter à la vie de travail. Écouter les grèvistes ? Je les écoute, mais ce sont curieusement toujours les mêmes groupes qui font la grève, et plutôt pour des raisons de confort ou politique. Mais il faut aussi écouter ceux qui parlent avec des voix plus faibles. Ceux qui ont vraiment besoin de faire la grève ne le font pas, car ils ne sont pas organisés, et ils ne peuvent pas se payer le luxe de passer des jours à marcher et crier dans la rue, contrairement aux classes moyennes privilégées, tel que notamment les fonctionnaires gâtés. Il y a des nombreux groupes - grands ou petits - en France qui ont des problèmes beaucoup plus graves que ceux qu'on voit toujours dans la rue, mais on ne les entend quasiment jamais, car ils ne font pas assez de bruit. La démocratie doit prendre en considération l'ensemble de la population et non seulement ceux qui crient le plus fort. Vous me demandez si je n'ai pas quelque chose de constructive à dire. Et ceux qui font les manifestations, qu'ont-ils de constructif à dire ? Selon vous, eux, il faut les écouter, et moi, je dois être constructif !?
98. Date: 2006-06-21, From:
(anonymous) Author's comments: C'est vrai que j'ai plutôt répondu dans la direction de la politique et que les commentaires concernaient plutôt des "clichés". Certes, il y a des élements de "clichés" sur la page, mais pas autant que certains le veulent pour ne pas admettre l'état réel des choses. Chacun qui a vécu à Paris sait que les crottes de chiens ne sont pas des clichés, par exemple. Une cliché ne laisse pas des mauvaises odeurs sur les chaussures. Je le dis haut et fort, sans clichés, sans sarcasme : laisser les autres marcher dans les excréments de son chien est un comportement sale et égoïste qu'on ne trouve pas dans des pays comme l'Allemagne et la Suisse, dont les habitants auraient honte de se comporter ainsi, et où l'entourage reprocherait immédiatement le pauvre type qui oserait le faire. Sur la page même, j'ai préféré le traiter sous un aspect satirique, mais voilà qu'on l'appelle "cliché" ensuite. Il y a peut-être d'autres sujets sur la page où l'élement de "cliché" est plus fort, mais il n'y a rien sur la page qui est basé exclusivement sur des clichés. Ce n'est pas la "charme" française qui est un problème, ou le fait que les Français sont un peu différents. Chaque pays de l'Europe est différent, et c'est vrai que ça donne une certaine charme, et ça donne notamment le choix de s'installer dans un pays rigide comme l'Allemagne, un pays laxiste comme la France ou un pays chaotique comme l'Italie. En France, c'est l'élement un peu trop fort de "moi" qui gâche les choses. Les Français le savent bien : l'incivisme rend parfois les choses invivables pour les autres Français. Les Français ne s'aiment pas entre eux, car chacun ne pense qu'à lui-même. C'est peut-être la raison pour laquelle le pays essaie desespérément de se faire aimer à l'étranger, en présentant un rêve de "charme". Mais un peu de considération pour les autres ne ferait pas de mal, et ça n'allait pas gachir la "charme". Ça ne ferait pas non plus de mal de parler d'autres langues que le français et d'être prêt à accueillir les étrangers dans une autre langue plutôt que les bouder, comme le font trop de Français (mais non pas tous). Où les Hollandais sont connus pour être prêts à accueillir les étrangers avec un anglais presque plus parfait que l'anglais parlé par les Anglais, les Français semblent fiers de bouder toute langue étrangère, comme un enfant de 4 ans qui ne veut manger qu'une seule chose. C'est "charmant" ça ? Ce n'est pas nécessaire de bouder les autres pour être charmant. Ce n'est pas pour rien que la France vient d'obtenir le résultat comme le pays le moins accueillant en Europe pour les touristes dans un sondage. Ça, ce n'est pas vraiment "charmant". Finalement, c'est drôle comme "vous n'avez qu'à partir" semble être la réponse uniforme des Français qui ne tolèrent pas la critique. Plutôt qu'améliorer ce qui pourrait être amélioré, on demande à ceux qui ose critiquer de partir, pour que tout puisse rester médiocre. Dans les institutions européennes, fortement inspirées des structures françaises, on fait pareil avec ceux qui découvrent la fraude - on les fait partir. Et voilà l'une des raisons que l'Europe et la France vont mal. On laisse l'abus, la fraude, la corruption, le laxisme, la protection des intérêts particuliers etc. en place, comme des insectes qui rongent une plante - qui va finir par mourir.
97. Date: 2006-06-21, From:
(anonymous) Author's comments: Je dis que c'est propre en Allemagne et en Suisse. Chacun peut le constater en y allant. Londres n'est pas hyper propre, mais on ne marche pas non plus dans des crottes tout le temps comme à Paris. Il y a des nombreuses disputes entre voisins en France, et entre propriétaires et locataires, et on voit qu'un sens de civisme au niveau de respecter ses obligations pour le bien des autres, à un inveau raisonnable, ne fait souvent pas partie des réflexions. Encore, je n'ai pas dit que la France est le seul pays à avoir des individualistes (égoïstes plutôt), ce qui est écrit au début de la page, mais on y trouve une concentration supérieure aux pays voisins, plutôt vers le nord. Il y a beaucoup de mal dans les 35 heures et l'ensemble du niveau du confort et protection des employés dans les contrats permanents, car ça empêche l'économie de se redresser, et ça assure un haut niveau de chômage et des RMIstes. C'est ça l'égoïsme de la part de ceux qui sont déjà arrivés dans ce type de contrats. Il s'en fiche si des millions doivent payer le prix pour ça en restant au fond de la société. Ça ne les gêne pas d'envoyer la facture pour leur confort aux autres. Le problème, c'est que presque tous les politiciens sont trop lâches pour expliquer à la population que ce niveau de confort va terminer à un moment ou à un autre, au plus tard quand la caisse est vide. Ils pensent à leur réelection, non pas au pays. Si vous êtes jeune, rassurez-vous qu'il n'y aura pas autant d'argent pour votre retraite que ce qu'on est payé aujourd'hui. Chacun ne pense qu'à profiter du système, et lorsque le système aura fait faillite, on va faire quoi ? Il y a des réalités économiques dures que les Français ne veulent pas comprendre, très probablement parce que la classe politique n'ose pas les expliquer. N'était-il pas temps à oublier les raisons historiques, autant qu'il est temps pour les Anglais d'arrêter de parler des Nazis ? Les Anglais aussi sont incompétents en langues, mais au moins ils n'ont pas l'attitude de bouder. Soyez assurée que ce n'est pas pour raison de l'attitude des Français que Paris et la France reçoivent énormement de touristes. C'est malgré cela ! Ce n'est pas avec "quelques mots" d'une autre langue qu'on va construire l'Europe. C'est logique pour vous de fuir devant des problèmes, plutôt de les résoudre ? C'est peut-être dans la culture. Il y a d'autres cultures où on a peut-être plutôt la tendence à se battre, plutôt que fuir. En effet, comme les Français semblent accepter l'état médiocre de leur pays, ça explique aussi que peu de choses bougent. Personne ne se responsabilise. En ce qui concerne les critiques constructives avec des propositions pour des améliorations, ça ne devrait pas être nécessaire dans un problème comme les crottes d'expliquer aux gens d'enlever leurs affaires - ou d'expliquer qu'il faut prendre d'autres langues au sérieux au lieu de les bouder si on ne veut pas paraître arrogant et prétentieux envers ses voisins. Pour des problèmes structurels et économiques, voir plutôt skovgaard.org/europolitics/. En effet, ce n'est pas normal qu'un pays comme la France traîne dans la misère économique comme c'est le cas. Le pays dispose bien d'énormes ressources, mais elles sont mal utilisées, et on a des structures publiques qui freinent énormement le redressement économique.
96. Date: 2006-06-21, From:
(anonymous) Author's comments: Merci pour le débat et bonne continuation en UK. Pour se présenter, il faut d'abord avoir le droit de vote, ce dont en tant que Danois expatrié je ne dispose pas. En effet, sous le projet "démocratique" de l'Europe, seulement une partie des Européens vivant en Europe peuvent voter (sauf Parlement UE et commune). Mais je suppose que je vais terminer par laisser tomber la nationalité danoise pour obtenir le droit d'aller voter en France. Ensuite, je pourrai critiquer la France en tant que Français.
95. Date: 2006-06-15, From:
(anonymous) Author's comments: Thanks for your comments. The trouble with French strikes is that they are mostly about protecting achieved privileges for particular groups that have enough power to manifest themselves in the media and disturb the government - worst of all threaten the politicians' reelection. Many of the strikes are not about getting rid of bad working conditions but simply political - or just traditional, as in the case of public transport. SNCF workers already have many privileges, absolute job security, early retirement etc., and yet they keep striking regularly. There are many less organised people and groups in France that live in real poverty, some of whom will never aspire to get a proper job, but they are not striking. If they have a low-paid job on a limited contract, they keep working in often poor conditions to earn a living, almost as in George Orwell's "Down and Out in Paris and London" about poverty. I'm not talking about the vandals but ordinary people who never got a real chance. They are the ones who suffer the most in today's France; not the pampered organised strikers you see on TV. The unions no longer bother about real working condition problems; they are political. Therefore, they don't care about these outcast workers. If they did, they would allow the working code to be made flexible, so that businesses could hire these workers on better terms - and hire more of them. But the unions' interest is protecting the privileges of those who have a secure job for life and have nothing to gain by making the working code flexible. They protect their achieved rights at the cost of the bottom class. Self-employed people and micro-business owners often suffer fates similar to bottom-class workers, and despite the risks they take, they do not have access to all the security offered to privileged groups. Some end up in the streets when their businesses fail. Don't be fooled by the screaming masses. They stand up for selfishness; not social justice.
94. Date: 2006-05-31, From:
(anonymous) Author's comments: "Trivelling"? Are you related to inspector Clouseau? Anyway, I notice that while I describe things many don't like to hear, I don't actually tell those I describe what to do - contrary to you, who tell me to stop "trivelling", whatever that is, but since you enjoy it, maybe I should try it. You should read "A Year in the Merde", by the way :-)
93. Date: 2006-05-09, From:
Missy I relocated to join my hubby/partner of 6 years and though as much as he has said, "count the positives of being here", I absolutely cannot see them. Thank you for your website. Thank you for allowing me to see that I am not the only one and my feelings about this place are not crazy!!! This place just sucks! and in all honesty, something is going to have to give, either we go back where we came from or I go back... me staying here... Lord help me!!!
92. Date: 2006-04-14, From:
Jess Nielsen You have your opinions and i respect that. But i disagree with a most of it. Some of it is so preposterous that it speaks for itself. This page has no purpose, but to prove that you sir must be a fool. First of all, a lot of what you state on this page is directly false, other things are pure speculation and in some cases also ridiculous. I would like to comment on some of this below. "Unfortunately, communistic and socialistic indoctrination sets in from an early age. Because of the high taxes, both parents are forced to work and leave their children at institutions, where the personnel has every opportunity to implant the "correct" ideas in the children. Thus, many Danes actually believe in the destructive regime" You more or less claim that the personnel in the daycare institutions, schools ect., is trained by former members of Stalins regime filling the children with communist propaganda. If you can't honestly see that this claim is ridiculous you can't all that bright. Any state is formed by its history, and yes Denmark a basically socialistic, but there is a long way from being a generally socialistic minded state to a new version of The Soviet Union. In the section about the taxing system, where you accuse the Government of corruption, you end up defending Dr. Jørgen Ege. Why is the part with his many cases of malpractice, incompetent surgery, complete disregard and lack of sympathy for his victims, not mentioned? Also included on this page is stories whose sole purpose is to portray Denmark as hell on Earth. The "Renata" story is pure speculation. A typical bitter "everybody hates me" story. It portrays Danish youth as brainwashed, stupid, dangerous and schizophrenic, and still manages to also portray danish men/fathers as rapists and childmolesters. I bet this is great stuff for you right? When i read the story i see before me a weak, desperate, bitter and mentally unstable crybaby of a woman. She states that they actually had everything they wanted, then when things went wrong suddenly all Danes are bastards. If this is the kind of information you use to prove your points im glad, because that means that your are so desperate to find something you can critizise that you have to use this kind of useless rambling from a obvious bitter woman, who starts to whine when things ain't going her way. Now to a direct lie. I would like for you to correct your claim that Denmark
has debts of 755.000.000.000 DKR(100 Billion €). Denmark has debts totalling
130.000.000.000 DKR (17.5 Billion Euros) , which was announced by "Denmarks
Statistic Institute" not long ago, when you add the States assets in the
equation, which you conveniently "forgot" to mention. Thats the result
of a superstrong Danish economy which has produced a state surplus of 10-50
billion DKR for many years now. In 2005 alone the debt was reduced by 48 billion
DKR. The Gangs you mention, is no longer really in the picture. The police have
them under control due to the "Rockerlov" or in English "The
Motorcycle Gang Law". Eventhough they are most likely still is involved in
drugs. But that is a fact in all countries where Hells Angels and Bandidos is
represented. Why not mention that names of the "GANGS"! The only thing in the insulting, useless, bitter og ridiculous page intended to portray Denmark as bad as possible I agree on is the "Why?" section, where you are absolutely right. One last thing. Is can see by your resplies to others that i can expect a violent response. You manage to proclaim everybody that strongly disagrees with you for idiots, so lets end me comment by a quote from me as a proud Dane to whatever you can be considered to be. "You even called me stupid in your verse, and I m almost agreeing, for
where stupidity is involved, you are quite an expert, friend." Author's comments: Thanks for your comments, even though you disagree. Now, if someone needs to call someone else a fool in order to argue his points, what does that say about that person? If this page has no purpose, what then is the purpose of the many political comments, readers' letters and other opinions printed daily in newspapers throughout the world, except for a few countries where that liberty does not exist? The fact that I can do it and that you can respond in public is in itself a praise of the part of the world we live in. If I exaggerate about the political indoctrination in schools etc., it is nevertheless known that the personnel in these sectors have a tendency to the left. It is difficult to prove with figures, but it is there. As I have no further information about the Jørgen Ege case, I've decided to remove that comment. The Renata story is a story that I was sent unsolicited by a very real person, and I have not edited it to fit any purpose. How dare you call it pure speculation, just because it doesn't fit your own view? It is, however, common that someone who has not been in difficulty himself is mostly unable to understand others' difficulties. As for the figures for public debt, you can just as well call Eurostat for liars, as the figures were taken directly from their Yearbook 1997, as I'd taken care to write. If you don't like the figure for gross debt, which is the figure they have chosen to show, then maybe you could write to Eurostat and ask them why they "forget" the figures you like. The gross debt has been reduced from 100 bio. euros to 60 bio. euros over the last 10 years, and that is the figure that Denmark is paying interest on, not the net debt figure. I have used this occasion to update the page with the latest Eurostat and Danmarks Statistik figures. I have no recent information about gangs and have therefore decided to remove that part. You started this by calling me a "fool" and then you accuse me of calling readers "idiots", something a simple "find" will prove false.
91. Date: 2006-04-14, From:
Mark Lawrence I think the issue of history and France's dubious role in Vichy hasn't really
been addressed and if anyone wants more information on the great saviour of
European ideals check out this link: CHRISTOPHER A LONG - De Gaulle The Man Who
Stood Alone BEST wishes and keep it up Author's comments: Thanks for your comments. I simply don't have information accurate enough to comment on the Vichy stuff, so I'll let others do that.
90. Date: 2006-03-31, From:
Peter Author's comments: I've lived in France since 1998. That's how I've learned the pityful state of France. The description on the French page is actually real life in France, but I know that it does not match the official French propaganda and the false image France wants to give of itself. "A remark generally hurts in proportion to its truth." Will Rogers.
89. Date: 2006-03-28, From:
Leno F Author's comments: It's funny that when France is criticised based on actual experiences from actual living in France for severral years, it is called "préjugés" (to be prejudiced) to be laughed off. No, this page has been created during the time I've been living in France and time after time experienced the state of the nation. You say you don't see the interest of writing "nasty things" (yes, the things I write may be seen as nasty, but they reflect how things really are in France, so are you saying that France is a nasty country?), so which interest do you see in France's official propaganda of spreading falsely optimistic information about the country, for example by soon introducing an international satellite channel to broadcast France's view of the world to the world, or France's never-ending but unsuccessful campagin to promote French? Je serais ravi (honnêtement) de publier vos impressions négatives sur le Danemark. Entre-temps, vous pourrez vous amuser à lire mes propres commentaires négatives sur le Danemark... Mais franchement, la France n'a vraiment pas besoin de caricatures ; les gens dans la rue pour le moment constituent une très bonne caricature du pays, et cela sans aide extérieure. Le comportement de ces Français fait beaucoup plus de dégâts pour le pays que mes quelques commentaires. Ces jeunes courent dans les rues comme des poules sans tête, sans comprendre que la gauche les a manipulé depuis 20 ans pour leur faire croire qu'ils n'ont que exiger la sécurité à vie - ce qui n'est plus possible et ce que les entreprises ne peuvent pas et ne veulent pas leur donner. Leno's reply: Si les jeunes "courent dans les rues comme des poules sans têtes" et qu'ils courent après un idéal de société utopique à vos yeux, cela vaut mieux que la résignation mortifère qu'impose à la population un gouvernement de droite. Puisque vous parlez des manipulations de la gauche, il est encore temps de vous rendre compte que la droite n'est pas exempte d'une grande habileté. Mais tout ça on le cache sous des noms beaucoup plus serieux comme "capital", "bénéfices", "entreprise", "principe de réalité".C'est sur que ça sonne beaucoup mieux que de défendre de pauvres petits idéaux socialistes qui ne rapportent rien et encombre la grande machine capitaliste de résidus humains fort incommodants. Même si ils courent a leur perte , ces fameux "jeunes" (mais je ne vois pas bien de qui exactement vous parlez, car des jeunes il y en a plusieurs sortes), c'est leur problème, pas le vôtre. En ce moment c'est la mode de s'en prendre aux Francais, de les caricaturer, allez-y, vous avez raison de profiter du phénomène, c'est dans l'air du temps. En plus en le faisant en anglais vous vous assurez une audience trés large, c'est parfait pour vous. Ca doit etre tellement valorisant pour certains de se dire, "ah qu'ils sont stupides ces français, decidemment nous on est beaucoup mieux". Ca leur fait se sentir mieux,a peu de frais, ça serait dommage de s'en priver. Vous connaissez sans doute quelques rues en France, la belle affaire ; ça ne vous permet pas de dire que vous connaissez toutes les rues de ce pays... il en va de mêmes avec "les gens". Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire, "les gens" ? Vous avez rencontrés quelques français, et maintenant vous vous promenez avec votre pancarte sur l'internet et vous dites "les gens en France sont comme ceci, ils sont comme cela". Mais je crois que vous n'avez pas vu grand chose, tout compte fait. Perso je soigne mes névroses autrement que d'accabler telle ou telle population, de le faire en ligne et propager une image totalement fausse sur un pays, surtout si ce n'est pas le mien. Author's reply: >Si les jeunes "courent dans les rues comme des poules sans têtes" et qu'ils courent après un idéal de société utopique à vos yeux, Si au moins c'était un idéal réalisable, je pourrais les comprendre, mais ils veulent la sécurité de boulot à vie, et ce n'est pas possible. Avez-vous remarqué que votre pays est en train de faire faillite pour raison de sa surconsommation ? Votre pays a besoin des gens qui ont envie de travailler et entreprendre au lieu de bloquer les rues. En effet, ça me fait mal de voir comment les Français eux-même gaspillent les ressources de leur pays. On leur a dit de tout reclamer de l'État au lieu de devenir responsables. Que voulez-vous faire avec une jeunesse dont 75% considèrent la fonction publique comme attirante ? Ce n'est pas la fonction publique qui génère la richesse. Je suis à mon compte en France, et je vois comment tout est fait pour casser la vie pour ceux qui essaie de se débrouiller. On nous taxe plus de 100% sans problème. Essayez de traiter les salariés comme ça ! La France ne pourra pas prospérer pour autant que le pays rend la vie hyper difficile pour les entrepreneurs. >résignation mortifère qu'impose à la population un gouvernement de droite. Je suis d'accord dans le sens que le CPE est loin d'être assez. Il faudra plutôt un contrat flexible pour l'ensemble du marché de travail au lieu de plusieurs contrats ciblés. Mais sans assouplir la rigidité du CDI, le pays n'ira nulle part. Le CDI est une catastrophe. >la droite n'est pas exempte d'une grande habileté. Vous avez parfaitement raison. Je ne suis pas adhérent à 100% des idées de la droite. La magouille à droite n'a rien à envier à la gauche. La France a besoin d'une dose de libéralisme et de flexibilité, mais il n'y a pas de partie libérale en France. >Mais tout ça on le cache sous des noms beaucoup plus serieux comme "capital", "bénéfices", "entreprise", "principe de réalité".C'est sur que ça sonne beaucoup mieux que de défendre de pauvres petits idéaux socialistes qui ne rapportent rien et encombre la grande machine capitaliste de résidus humains fort incommodants. Vous êtes coïncés dans les idées du passé de corporation-salarié. En ce qui me concerne, je suis à la fois entreprise et 'résidu humain' après le traitement brutal offert aux indépendants en France par l'État (voir la partie politique de mon site). Sans capital, entreprise et bénéfices, vous voulez vivre de quoi, d'ailleurs ? La France se dit fier de son modèle social, qui ne protège en effet qu'une partie des travailleurs et laisse le reste dans la plus grande misère sans chômage, sans RMI, sans ASS, sans rien. Il y a des gens privilégiés qui sont déjà protégés par le système, et ils ont tout intérêt à protéger leurs privilèges, mais ce sont ceux en-dehors de ce modèle qui en paie le prix. Cela n'est pas l'égalité ; c'est la défense de privilèges. >Même si ils courent a leur perte , ces fameux "jeunes" (mais je ne vois pas bien de qui exactement vous parlez, car des jeunes il y en a plusieurs sortes), c'est leur problème, pas le vôtre. Je parle plutôt des étudiants. Les casseurs trouvent toujours des opportunités pour casser, mais c'est un autre problématique. Si les jeunes bloque les transports ou commettent d'autres types d'incivisme, ça concerne tout le monde. S'ils empêchent ceux qui veulent étudier d'étudier, ça concerne les étudiants. S'ils manifestent simplement, c'est leur problème. >En ce moment c'est la mode de s'en prendre aux Francais, de les caricaturer, allez-y, vous avez raison de profiter du phénomène, c'est dans l'air du temps. Les Français n'hésitent pas à montrer le doigt aux USA ou d'autres pays, donc je ne vois pas pourquoi la France et les Français devraient être sacrés. Ma page n'a rien à voir avec la mode, mais lorsque je suis arrivé en France, j'ai remarqué petit à petit que le pays n'a pas grande-chose à voir avec l'image que la France essaie de donner à l'étranger. >En plus en le faisant en anglais vous vous assurez une audience trés large, c'est parfait pour vous. Je le fais en anglais, car c'est la langue internationale/universelle, et je le trouve plus confortable d'écrire en anglais qu'en français ou danois. >Ca doit etre tellement valorisant pour certains de se dire, "ah qu'ils sont stupides ces français, decidemment nous on est beaucoup mieux". Ca leur fait se sentir mieux,a peu de frais, ça serait dommage de s'en priver. "nous on est beaucoup mieux"? C'est qui, "nous"? Je ne dis pas cela, et je ne dis pas que les Français sont stupides. >Vous connaissez sans doute quelques rues en France, la belle affaire ; ça ne vous permet pas de dire que vous connaissez toutes les rues de ce pays... Je n'ai pas dit ça non plus. >il en va de mêmes avec "les gens". Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire, "les gens" ? Vous avez rencontrés quelques français, et maintenant vous vous promenez avec votre pancarte sur l'internet et vous dites "les gens en France sont comme ceci, ils sont comme cela". Mais je crois que vous n'avez pas vu grand chose, tout compte fait. J'observe ce que je vois et je remarque certains aspects en France qu'on voit moins ailleurs. C'est clairement indiqué au début de la page que ça ne concerne pas forcément tous les Français. >Perso je soigne mes névroses autrement que d'accabler telle ou telle population, de le faire en ligne et propager une image totalement fausse sur un pays, surtout si ce n'est pas le mien. C'est l'image que la France essaie de donner de soi-même qui est fausse. Malheureusement, ce qui est écrit sur ma page est basé sur des expériences bien trop réelles. Je constate ensuite que vous ne lisez que ce que vous avez envie de lire, et je vous ai déjà dit que mon propre pays, le Danemark, n'a pas été mieux traité que la France. Alors c'est quoi votre histoire que "sourtout si ce n'est pas le mien" ? Finalement, la France est un pays qui est sans cesse en train de donner des leçons aux autres et qui se prend tellement au sérieux. La France exige toujours deux poids deux mesures. L'Europe doit payer pour les agriculteurs français. On ne veut pas toucher le bœuf britannique mais on cache ses propres vaches folles pour qu'elles puissent passer dans la chaîne alimentaire. EDF est en train d'acheter des marchés un peu partout mais on bloque la concurrence en France. Vous savez très bien que les Français non plus n'ont que peu de confiance au système. Ils savent que ça ne va pas, mais lorsqu'un gouvernement essaie de faire quelque chose, ils déscendent dans la rue pour ne rien changer. Au niveau de la langue, c'est devenu une obsession. Le comportement infantil de Chirac lors d'une réunion au Conseil d'Europe ridiculise le pays. On ne doit pas s'étonner si un tel pays est critiqué. Je comprends si vous et d'autres lecteurs sont néanmoins fiers de leurs pays, mais si chacun était prêt à regarder les faits dans les yeux ouvertement au lieu de prétendre que tout va bien, l'Europe pourrait aller beaucoup mieux.
88. Date: 2006-03-24, From:
Fran Author's comments: The British page already contained a paragraph explaining that the British-English-Welch -or whatever kitchen is moving. I've added another comment on the British page. For anyone who bothers, it's not difficult to find out what is England, what is Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - to be precise). The tricky part is to figure out if English humour is really British humour, if the dominating kitchen is English or British etc. By the way, can someone tell me what the country identification for cars is in Northern Ireland? In Great Britain, it's GB, but Northern Ireland is not a part of Great Britain but only the United Kingdom. Do they use GB anyway? If the humour is called English humour, does that imply that the Welch, Scots and Northern Irish have no sense of humour or that it has nothing to do with English humour? You see, it's not trivial :-)
87. Date: 2006-03-13, From:
(name withheld)
86. Date: 2006-02-25, From:
(anonymous) It's sad to see how people are breeding hatred through old fashioned clichés and shortcuts which have little and/or nothing to do with reality. Author's comments: I accept that some people have no sense of humour, but it's a false claim that there is little connection with reality. These pages are based on my own, very real experiences. No hate towards anyone is expressed or intended on these pages. (anonymous)' reply: What exactly is your definition of hate? If you were only kidding it would be fun. You should re-read the replies that you gave to some people. Tomorrow I am going to publish things online to prove that -lets say Italian people- are awful and hate the USA...the next day a bunch of close-minded brainless xenophobiacs will be reading it and take it for granted. To make it worse, lets say many of them are from the USA...in the following weeks they will make sure to tell everyone how Italians are dumb and hate the US... Butterfly effect...it will come to the hears of Italians that some American are calling them stupid.... next thing, out of anger and frustration they will start thinking: man, those yankees are retarded... What will happen is that one of them will also start a website to prove how retarded american people truly are and how they hate Italy and its culture... next thing, thousand and thousands of Italian will be reading it and taking it for granted. Author's comments: Please let us know the URL of your comments. If everything should be written so that even the least intelligent persons cannot misunderstand it, we could close all libraries. (anonymous)' reply: I am positive that your library was closed, or if it wasn't, you certainly never bothered to read a book. What I read on your page truly reminded me of the most disgusting aspect of human beings- and here I'm not talking about the french or the british or whoever you want- but of racism, intolerance and stupidity. Author's comments: Every reader is free to associate what he reads with something that is not written, but it's very strange that these pages make you think of racism. Maybe you don't understand what racism is, but that's all right, not everybody are equally clever. (anonymous)' reply: Racism is not written, racism is latent, its a concept. Maybe you don't understand the difference between something material and a concept, but that's all right, not everybody with a 'website' are equally clever. If they were, they'd be publishing books. Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (3rd edition 1995): racism 1 unfair treatment of people, or violence against them, because they belong to a different race from your own 2 the belief that different races of people have different characters and abilities, and that the qualities of your own race are the best Author's comments: Intelligent readers understand that this site is not about race but about certain cultural traits amongst certain people in France, the UK and Denmark. To underscore the point, the people criticised on this site are of the same race than my own. There is no racism on this site. Racism has nothing to do with nationality. Maybe we should put all the people and cultures you don't like -for whatever reason it may be, but I tend to think that its just deep-rooted old-school xenophobia- and put them all on an Island and maybe nuke them...how 'bout that?! Author's comments: That's entirely your suggestion. What do other readers say? No xenophobia was taught at my school, no xenophobia is expressed on these pages, and no xenophobia is behind them, but maybe you don't understand what xenophobia is either. It's still all right. You can buy dictionaries if you want to know. (anonymous)' reply: We already made a point that you don't understand what a concept is. It's still alright. I would suggest that you check that on www.dictionary.com, since we -also- already made a point that you never read a book. Sadly your local library was closed on that day. Longman: xenophobia extreme fear or dislike of people from other countries Author's comments: Fear? No, I'm not afraid of the French, the British or the Danes. No, I don't dislike them. I criticise certain things, but this anonymous reader does not understand the difference between criticism and xenophobia. Finally, I'm Danish and I criticise the Danes. Is that also xenophobia according to the warped thinking of this person whose best argument seem to be to repeat my phrases like a parrot? Is your site useful? Of course, if your goal is to make things worse, it is useful. If your aim is to get together a bunch of racist asswipes so they can scream, shout and complain about other countries, then fine. I guess this can be seen as some sort of group therapy, and if it makes you guys feel better I'm really glad. But I still wish that you'd just stick up to [foul language removed] to the latest issue of Guns & Ammo...if you see what I mean. People are the same everywhere, and only ignorant amoebas aren't aware of that. People who talk without knowing. For having lived decades in those countries I know that this is all nothing but a joke. Author's comments: So according to you, cultural differences in upbringing have no effects on people, and everybody from Saudi Arabia to Holland live after a uniform set of rules, whether moral, cultural or whatever. So if topless bathing, smoking a joint and gay marriages are accepted in Holland, so they are in Saudi Arabia. When you have tested your theory in practice, I wonder if you could let us know the conclusion. (anonymous)' reply: Cultural difference has nothing to do with the very essence of human beings, which is what I was talking about. I'm sorry you didn't understand, maybe you smoked one too many joint in Holland and there went your brain cells. What is your definition of culture? Wait, thats a rethorical question...Do you even know what that means (there goes another rethorical question). You claim that people are selfish, dirty, etc..and you claim that it is their culture to be that way. I guess its not in the french culture to shower for ex. Then how come you have to mention that only a very small minority of people smell? If its a small minority, then how come you consider it as part of the culture? Your contradicting yourself. There are smelly people everywhere, and all you do is contribute to a cliché that french ppl are disgusting..that its part of their culture, when you are the first one to mention that what you wrote is only about a very small minority. Author's comments: This site is not about the very essence of human beings but about cultural aspects and their influence on people. I try to be liberal with the inclusion on comments here, but the discussion is limited to the subjects mentioned on the site. Selfishness and hygiene are indeed related to culture. Next, you cannot figure out why I mention that a small minority stink and yet relate it to culture. To start with, read the introduction to the French page: "If I talk about "the French" doing so and so on this page, it doesn't imply that all the French - or even a majority of the French - match the description, but rather that there is more of a tendency for that sort of behaviour than elsewhere." Still don't get it? France is the country where I've come across the largest number of smelly people, regardless if they may only be 0.1% of the population or whatever. In other countries where I've lived, it's less. I don't say that there are none outside France. Learn to read and understand nuances. How about we talk about media controlling the US...ever heard of Gulf War and CNN? Author's comments: Please go ahead. I have never pretended that this site could treat all possible subjects or countries or that everything not described here should be perfect. You cited the Declaration of Human Rights as an answer to somebody ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ --------- Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ---------- I'd re-phrase it to: opinions are like assholes, we all got one. Author's comments: What exactly does it mean that you would like to rephrase this part of the Human Rights declaration? You are free to believe that your opinion makes you think of a rectum if that is what you intend to say. (anonymous)' reply: I had to re-phrase it to lower myself to your level, apparently I didn't go low enough since you didn't get that I was talking about YOUR opinion. Which brings us back to: "not everyone are equally clever". Talking about that, "everyone" is singular, not plural...so it should be 'not everyone IS equally clever'...apparently you aren't clever enough to know that. Author's comments: There you go again, repeating my phrases like a parrot.
As for the grammar, I don't waste my time fine-polishing it on this page, but
let's point out some of your own errors, since it's important for you: But yours -my dear friend- really stinks. Author's comments: Those who cannot express their arguments and opinions precisely tend to revert to such general expressions that usually say more about the one who says it than what it was meant for. Nazis expressed their opnion too. Why the fuck are you citing the Decalaration of Human Rights when your attitude is going against humanity. Author's comments: And if Nazis expressed their opinion, then what does that imply according to you? That everybody who expresses an opinion is a Nazi? I begin to get an idea of your intellectual level. As for my attitudes, stick to the facts, please, instead of shouting abuse all around you in an uncontrolled manner. If you really believe that my attitude is against humanity (pure nonsense), maybe you should point out which phrase on this site is "against humanity". (anonymous)' reply: Here you give us a nice example of the type of shortcuts I was talking about in my first post. Author's comments: The shortcut was deliberate to illustrate the complete absence of sense of your Nazi remark. (anonymous)' reply: [about intellectual level:] So do I about yours. (anonymous)' reply: [about shouting abuse:] So should you. A couple of examples: 1} french aren't dirty, even YOU said it Author's comments: Some are, as it's explained above. You're lucky if you've never come across them. (anonymous)' reply: 2} you have little to no knowledge of french grammar and are trying to use it to prove that french people are selfish. Author's comments: You have no knowledge about my French grammar. It could look like I know more about French grammar than you know about English spelling. (anonymous)' reply: Too bad that that whole paragraph don't make sense considering the fact that once again you are using shortcuts. First of all, nobody says "moi, je vais me..." You wouldn't put "moi" to start your sentence. Author's comments: You uncover your blatant lack of knowledge of the way French is used in daily speech. If you've lived in France, then your interaction with Frenchmen in French must have been limited. The "moi, je ..." is classic. (anonymous)' reply: Second of all, you forgot to talk about the other possibilities: Tu vas te coucher> in that case it would be you you you! (which goes against your idea of selfishness, since it'd be all about YOU) Il/elle va se coucher >in that case it'd be He/She Himself/Herself (not very selfish either, right?!) nous allons nous coucher > WE, ourselves (ok back to including myself, but wait... vous allez vous coucher YOU yourselves!!! Ils/elles vont se coucher. THEY , themselves!! In fact what you simply don't get is the simple idea of subject pronouns...and of verbs too: You used a verb which happens to need a preposition: to go to bed= aller se coucher. Use another verb and you won't need to repeat the subject pronoun. So next time, Do not only use an example which fits your theory. Of course if you had given all the possibilities like I just did, it wouldn't have worked. Author's comments: ... and blah blah blah. You again expose first of all a complete lack of humour (are you German by any chance?) and then that you've completely misunderstood the joke about the "moi, je ..." language abuse in daily speech and connecting it with selfishness. (anonymous)' reply:3} you're claiming for example that paris is covered in dog crap, i'm sorry to say that since the 80's there is a law that fines the minority of people who let their dog take a crap on the pavement. There is also a special team that goes all around Paris in motorcycles which are designed to clean such things when it happens. Get your info updated. Author's comments: If you knew more about the French, then you would know that it's a joke to suggest that a law and a fine that you may get once in 100 years is enough to make the French change their behaviour. The moto-crottes cannot possibly clean up all the daily mess. The point is that it's a dirty behaviour to let your dog foul in the street without cleaning up; not that it's possible to waste taxpayers' money cleaning up after other people's dogs. (anonymous)' reply: 4}The news on TV are in french so that French people don't get to hear any other language? OK, so when was the last time you heard the news on TV in the USA and it was in German, Finnish, French, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, etc??? Did you ever go to Spain, turned on the news and it was in Dannish? Have you ever been to Australia and the news was in African? Its the same everywhere. Author's comments: If you re-read the page, you will discover that my comments only concern the dubbing of what was originally said in a foreign language into French. You use the cheap trick of changing what I said and then proving how stupid it is. It's not the same everywhere: Many countries do not dub foreign languages but use subtitles instead, for example the UK, Holland and the Scandinavian countries. (anonymous)' reply: Besides you can again check your info, several channels in France are in other languages (Arte for example where you can hear the news and other broadcasts in German, English, Spanish), every non-french movies on "Canal +" -one of the most popular channel in france- are broadcasted in their original language, france also have cable/satellite TV in other languages. I could go on...but lets move to our next point. Author's comments: Arte and TF1 are the only exceptions amongst uncoded channels. On the main channels FR2, FR3, La Cinq and M6, everything is dubbed. TF1 started broadcasting certain films with a choice between the original soundtrack and French in 2007, at least via satellite. Canal+ is quite expensive and I have never felt any need to fork out for just one channel. The French channels on the satellite package CanalSatellite are also dubbed in French, with a few exceptions if on top of the general sat package you pay more to get their film channels, where they sometimes broadcast a few of the films in original undubbed version. The fact that it's possible to find a few movies in their original version does not alter a thing about my argumentation about the damage done by dubbing everything else. China? in China everything is banned? censored Try the US where you can't smoke and can't eat red meat and people are tape-wiring your phone and checking everything you buy with your credit card. and that every movie is censored Author's comments: Again, try looking up in a dictionary to find out what censorship means. Hint: It is not about smoking regulations. (anonymous)' reply: Hint for you: read the full sentence before answering back. I started it with the word "banned". you can't smoke= smoking is banned/prohibited. Longman: censor to examine books, films, letters etc. to remove anything that is considered offensive, morally harmful, or politically dangerous etc. Author's comments: Are you serious that you don't understand the difference between censorship and banning a physical action like smoking? It seem so. Anyway, smoking is not systematically banned in the US as a whole (the tobacco industry would have made a revolution) but in certain places, just like it is for example in France, the UK, Ireland and Sweden. Wake up little suzie, you're a loser. Game over man. Now how about you go play with your barbie dolls on the highway?! Author's comments: Do you have one I can borrow? Cheerio [foul language removed] :) (anonymous)' reply:Now if your site is just supposed to give us a good laugh, then I think its funny. But as I was reading through it it started bothering me to feel that you are actually serious about these things. So if you are serious and want to prove that you/ the country you are currently living in and its people are better than others, I think you fit your definition of the frenchman who supposedly think he's better than everyone else. Anyway, your choice to do that, but at least update your info, and make sure you are correct. So long sucker! Author's comments: The point is that it is partially sarcastic and partially serious, just as the British and Danish pages. Let me reiterate a quote on top of the French page that is to be taken very seriously: "People who take fun only as fun, and serious matters only seriously, haven't fully grasped either one". Particularly the French page has been deliberately written as a mixture of hard facts, sarcasm, jokes, provocations, own experiences and interpretations, exaggerations and more, so that it sometimes constitutes a grey zone of a noman's-land (pleonasm) with a minefield of possibilities for the reader to interpret, match with own experiences, misunderstand, agree or fly into a rage. People read what they want to read on that page! It was quite predictable that readers would write all sorts of comments, and they're all good fun to read, whether positive or negative. Frankly, what's the deal writing stuff like France is a nice country with nice people cooking nice food and there is a lot of nice countryside to view when it's nice weather, just to get comments such as yeah yeah yeah I was in France too last July and it was nice weather too and nice food too and... You get the point. Leave that to tourist brochures. Now, let me state a couple of plain facts: The site makes fun of and criticises France, Britain and Denmark. I live in France and have been there since 1998. I am Danish. What does that make of your suggestions about proving that the country I live in and its people are better than others? That France and the French are better than France and the French? Or that I am better than others? That I as a Dane is better than Danes? If you find any info that is factually incorrect, I'm happy to correct it, as I've sometimes done in the past as a result of readers' comments, but I have the feeling that you haven't lived in France for quite a while and that your information may not be quite so up to date as you think. I'll leave you the time to read my response, but then I'll consider if this discussion can be edited down to avoid bothering readers with less significant details. I won't add further comments to this, neither from you neither from myself, so if you want have further points, please use e-mail (use an anonymous e-mail if you want; I don't really care).
85. Date: 2006-02-07, From:
samantha
84. Date: 2006-02-02, From:
M.L.
83. Date: 2006-01-30, From:
Pia Kastrup Andersen Translation: "Fantastic!!! Just my words. I've lived in Holland (2 years), England (6 years) and I'm frequently in France ... You just hit the mark - what a laugh. Concerning the mother country: When you advance some 'constructive' criticism about Denmark and the Danes, who compared with the English can be quite rude, they become fairly bad-tempered - self-irony is hard to find - I do miss something about the Danes and their children on your website ... 'child families' in Denmark are driving me crazy! There is nothing like Denmark ... They should get out more. I'm quite certain that if you lived in Holland, you would get a nervous breakdown! A really good book to read is 'The Undutchables' - quite similar to your website. Really good work, Finn." Author's comments: If one searches through this page for comments from Danes of Danish origin, one will find that this comment is the only one that is not more or less hostile to the "Danish Page", except from a one-liner from an expat Dane in the USA. Danes only like irony if it's about others.
82. Date: 2006-01-26, From:
Sandra Robert Author's comments: I wonder if you would like to point out which claims you find the most false. If they are really false, I will try to make them more accurate. French grammar is not for beginners, so corrections are welcome. I'm not sure what's wrong with the two quotes, but I admit that the French texts on this side were made in a hurry. There are always positive and negative things to say about every country, every people, every person etc. If you read a positive description of a country, do you then write back to the author to ask if he has anything negative to say? It's an interesting observation that people mostly ask that a description should be balanced if the description is negative but much less frequently if it's positive. I guess one of the reasons for writing this page was that I found that the impression left by countless books and other presentations of France before I came here is out of sync with reality. If the French themselves were so pleased with everything, why are many of them striking all the time, voting for Front National, voting down the EU Constitution and so on? My French wife is as fed up with the annoying aspects of France as I am. The latest 'reality joke' I heard was that a public school teacher was considering putting her children in a private school because public teachers are striking all the time...
81. Date: 2006-10-01, From:
Anonymous Author's comments: The Danish unemployment system seems to be one of the better in Europe, but I don't have too precise information about it. What I do know is that the low unemployment percent is partially purchased by the government and thus artificial. Many years ago, they introduced a scheme called parental leave under which a parent couple could both take one year's paid leave from their job so that an unemployed could do their job in the meantime. A cousin of mine and her husband, respectively a nurse and a dentist, profited from this and took one year's holiday abroad with their two children, paid by the Danish government. I don't know if this scheme is still available. But the simple fact that companies can fire an employee who is not well suited to his job, something that is illegal in France for example, would explain why companies are willing to hire, as opposed to France, where companies with more than 20 employees can be stuck with someone for life, unless he commits a very serious error or the company's economy is under threat. The question about cyclists is not whether they or someone else should rule but about respecting the highway code and abstaining from uncivilised and aggressive behaviour such as vandalising a car's antenna if the car should happen to be 1 cm too close to the cyclist. Danish cyclists believe that the highway code does not apply to them and are seriously offended if fined for passing a red light or committing another offence. They don't think about that if they make an illegal manoeuvre that forces a car to swerve to avoid the cyclist, the car could end up killing a passing pedestrian or someone else.
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